Cuomo Limits Speeding Ticket Deals

Governor Andrew Cuomo is on the warpath again, this time against speeding tickets. Or so it would seem.

This morning I got a panicked call from a lawyer friend, who read this article: Speeding Ticket Plea Plan on Fast Track, in the Times Union.

The article gave at least some the impression that there would no longer be deals on speeding tickets in local traffic courts. A local attorney is quoted saying:

He doubts eliminating most plea bargaining on traffic cases would get past the Legislature. ... [M]aking plea bargains difficult would tie up local courts with traffic cases.

Some quick research called off any sense of panic. The plan would not really make plea bargains "difficult" nor eliminate it. And there is no fast track - that looks like something a headline editor came up with to make it catchy (speeding ticket - fast track - get it?).

After digging through recently submitted bills in the legislature, I found S02605, a bill in the Senate. Section C of the bill does a few things:

1. It would repeal §1101 of the Vehicle & Traffic Law, a sensible move. VTL 1101 is a catch-all law that says you're supposed to obey the traffic laws. Yes, it is that dumb. Some courts have used 1101 as a plea bargaining option, treated as a no-point violation that does not show up on a driving record. A couple years ago a DMV counsel opinion (pdf) said: "it is not appropriate for law enforcement personnel to charge a violation of §1101 or for a court to convict someone of such a charge."

So repealing 1101 is to some extent just housecleaning while also eliminating a plea bargaining option.

2. Here's the beef. For speeding tickets of more than 20 mph over the limit, any plea bargain would have to include points, with an exception. Under current law we defense lawyers are often able to get our clients plea bargains where their ticket is reduced to a parking ticket, typically under §1201. These do not show up on driving records.

This is not that big of a deal. Some prosecutors and judges won't reduce a speed of 21 mph or more to a parking ticket anyway. Keep in mind that a speed of 21-30 mph over the limit is 6 points (8 points for 31-40 over and 11 points for 41+), so a reduction to a 2-point moving violation is not bad for most drivers.

The law also leaves an exception, allowing the District Attorney to consent to "another charge" - i.e. something without points. If this happens the Court is supposed to put the reason for the exception on the record.

Of course, for tickets with speeds of 20 mph or less over the limit, we can still get reductions without any special exception. But even then there's no guarantee because each prosecutor and each judge have their own ways of doing things.

Now here's an interesting loophole: Since the Cuomo plea restriction affects guilty pleas, it does not limit so-called traffic diversion programs. In at least one county (Broome County Diversion Program), the District Attorney has a program where the defendant pays a $150 fee to the DA, submits proof of completion of a traffic safety class (i.e. driving school at additional cost) and then their ticket is dismissed. Because it's a dismissal, the limitation on guilty pleas does not apply.

Keep in mind that Cuomo's underlying purpose is to get additional money from traffic tickets. If your ticket is reduced from a speed to a parking ticket, the fine money goes to the town and there's no surcharge. Under the new rule, if passed, you will pay a higher fine and a surcharge, and most of that money will go to the state. Cuomo claims this will bring in $58 million in new money to the state, but  it's a trick. Following a long line of NY politicians like Pataki, Bruno and Silver, and of course his own father, he's stealing money from the towns and raising the speeding ticket tax on drivers.

The DAs started their traffic diversion programs as a way of getting their greedy hands on some of that money - they get $150 a pop, stiffing both the towns and the state. The odds are that Cuomo and the legislature will figure that out and ban the traffic diversion programs soon enough. But for now, we suspect more DAs will jump on the diversion bandwagon.

It's still wise for anyone with a traffic ticket to hire a lawyer. Because of our experience, we are in a better position to assess how your ticket will affect you and what the best option is for your case. And while you can hire a cheap lawyer, you might get what you pay for. Update: New article in the Buffalo News.

New point violations - cell phones and texting

Just read that cell phone violations will now count for 2 points on a NY driving record. The recent texting law also carries 2 points.

Also, there is a new law this year requiring cars to "move over" when passing an emergency vehicle on the side of the road. Read more at the Utica Observer Dispatch.

You can also read about the cell phone points change on the Times Union. Please note that I disagree with so many things in the article I actually sent an e-mail to the reporter. Here were my comments:

1. Cell phones on the road are not a "deadly epidemic". Traffic deaths are down dramatically over the years: USA Today.

Considering that 20 years ago cell phones were almost non-existent and now are everywhere, the idea that they're a deadly epidemic should mean a lot more deaths, not less.

2. Points are not an incentive to drivers before they get the ticket. Most have no idea what the points are until after. The point system is also idiotic. Example:

Points for going 76 in a 65: 4 points
Points for running a red light: 3 points

Most people would agree that running a red light is more dangerous than going 76 in a 65.

3. Repeat offenders will still get reductions on cell phone tickets. I represent many drivers, some with clean records and others with horrendous records. Sometimes the record doesn't matter at all, and sometimes the clean record means a better deal, but I get reductions on almost every case, probably 99% or more.

4. Following on that, this line is utter nonsense:
"After a driver pleads down once ... the driver stands little chance of avoiding the points for a second offense."

If you plead a cell phone ticket down to a parking ticket, the parking ticket doesn't show up on a driving record. So neither the prosecutor not the judge will know about it. Even if it happened in the same court, they still probably wouldn't notice.

5. A cell phone ticket should not increase insurance premiums if it's the only thing on your record. Insurance Law § 2335 sets the rules on what tickets can raise rates. It could raise rates if you had something else on your record, but that gets complicated to explain.

6. You get your license suspended if you get 11 points in 18 months, but if you take defensive driving that knocks off 4 points (but only for that specific purpose). So it's rare to see a suspension for less than 15 points (you get notice of the suspension before it kicks in, so you can usually take the class in time). You can also get revoked if you get three speeding convictions (or two work-zone speeding convictions) in 18 months. Revoked is worse than suspended in a couple ways.

Out-of-state tickets for Maine drivers

We are frequently asked by clients if NY tickets will affect them in their home state. Below is an image showing a Pennsylvania ticket on a Maine driving record, and it looks like this violation did not count for points. So if it's the best that you can do for a Maine driver, an 1110(a) isn't terrible.



Our biggest blog post on this topic is Do Points Transfer from July of 2009.

Out-of-state tickets and Massachussetts drivers

Prospective clients frequently ask how their NY ticket will affect them in their home state. Since it's next door, we get this question a lot from Massachusetts drivers. One of the best places to get the answer to this question is your state's DMV. In Massachusetts it is known as the RMV - Registry of Motor Vehicles.

This post is about Massachusetts, but for a more general discussion, see my Do Points Transfer post.

The RMV says that out-of-state tickets will count against you. It's in Chapter 2 of the RMV Drivers Manual (a pdf file). Here are some quotes from that:

Out-of-State Violations
Certain traffic offenses you have committed in other states will be placed on your driving record and treated by the RMV as if they had occurred in Massachusetts.
... [O]ut-of-state violations count toward possible license suspension and automobile insurance surcharges. ...
[T]hese offenses will be treated as if they occurred in [MA] if they are a “like” offense. ... RMV will look at what conduct the other state's law prohibits ....
RMV [will] apply Massachusetts license suspension rules to any [such] out-of-state violations ....

A lot of states follow this approach. One reason to hire our firm is that we look at your state's rules to see what reductions would have the lowest impact in your home state. Then we use that information in negotiating a deal for you. This is important. One of the most common reductions for simple tickets in NY is actually worse than a low speed for drivers in some states, such as NJ and FL.

For those interested in MA, see my post about Massachusetts Traffic Court.

Do Points Transfer? Out-of-state tickets are not that simple ...

If you have a ticket in New York, please check out our New York Traffic Lawyer page.
This is one of the most common questions we get: Do points transfer? Or: "Will the points transfer to my home state?"

The short and misleading answer is No. The points themselves do not transfer to other states.

So what does happen? In most situations, the state where you got the ticket will report any conviction to your home state. Your home state might then assign points to the violation according to its own rules.

Example: You are an Ontario driver and you get a speeding ticket in New York State, for going 85 mph in a 65 mph zone.

If you plead guilty or are convicted at trial of the 85/65, it will count for 4 points against you in NY. NY will report to Ontario. Ontario will count it against you per the Ontario system. 20 mph over the limit is about 32 km over the limit. In Ontario, 31-45 km over is 4 points.

If it had been 80/65, then it would still be 4 points in NY, but only 3 points in Ontario.

If your lawyer (yes, that's a hint) gets the ticket reduced to something less, there's a good chance it won't count for points against you in Ontario. A speed of 15 km (9 mph) or less in Ontario is no points, even though it would be 3 points in NY.

Different states handle tickets from other places differently. Quebec and Ontario recognize NY tickets and maybe tickets from a couple other states. Most other Canadian provinces do not recognize NY tickets. Maybe BC recognizes WA tickets?

New Jersey recognizes out-of-state tickets, and they generally count for 2 points there, no matter how many points they are in the state where you got the ticket. Could be a 3-point or 11-point speed in NY? Either way, 2 points in NJ. Your lawyer (again, a hint) may be able to get you a deal to something that doesn't count for points in NJ.

NY generally does not recognize out-of-state speeding tickets. I've been told it does recognize tickets from Quebec and Ontario. We have seen a Quebec speeding ticket on a NY driving record and we have seen out-of-state DUIs as well.

Florida recognizes out-of-state tickets. One common deal NY lawyers get for drivers is actually more points in FL than a low speed. So make sure you ask the lawyer you call what deal they think they can get for you in NY and how it will affect you in FL.

North Carolina is one of the trickiest. A speeding ticket that might be considered minor in NY could get you suspended in NC. Watch out! Virginia can also be difficult.

Every state is different and there can be many complications. So you might want to discuss this with a lawyer in the state where you got the ticket, and maybe with a lawyer in your home state as well.

And don't ask: "Do the points transfer?" It's not the right question. You should ask: "How will this affect me in my home state?"

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Update: See new post on Out of state tickets for Maine drivers.